BB: Well, I think both of us had 20 or both of us had 10. And that big, gaping 80 is why it was the hardest season. JG: Yeah, you know, I really took a look at myself this morning, because yesterday I didn’t respond to my daughter’s bid. She wanted to show us her garden, and I’m in the middle of reading a book on my Kindle, and I’m not very interested in gardening. And so, I decided to just read my book rather than go look at her garden. And Julie went out and looked at her garden, and this morning I was thinking, “I really missed that opportunity to get closer to my daughter by not going out there and seeing what that garden meant to her and the work she put into it.” And then she actually cooked something [laughter] from her garden for our dinner, and I didn’t really appreciate it. And so, I have to take a look at myself in the way I turn away and miss opportunities for getting closer to the person I love, probably the most of anybody on the planet. I have to really look at myself and see why do I make those choices? And become more aware of making bad choices. BB: Awareness. That’s one thing that John said for the homework from John was just be aware of the bids. JG: You don’t need to give the chemical. The 20-second hug will do the same thing. It increases trust between people, increases cooperation. Makes people more giving, it reduces adversarial interaction during conflict in couples, it’s very powerful. A 20-second hug will do it, or a six-second kiss will create that oxytocin that builds trust. So, touch builds trust between people, it’s really powerful.

Of course, it’s difficult to respond in the right way every single time. But you should try to turn toward your partner’s bids for connection as much as possible. ABR: I remember one time growing up and I turned towards the kitchen and I saw them kiss and I was like, “Whoa, I didn’t know they did that.” But that one memory and then a lot of other memories stayed with me, but I didn’t ever see them connect like that. ABR: It’s like a short little sweet book with actionable items, which is always so cool to me. Like little journal parts and… BB: I think when you don’t see your parents turn toward each other, that’s really hard for a child, you know? And so I vividly remember seeing our parents turn toward each other on occasion and just thinking, really almost being flooded with a sense that the world is safe, you know? That’s hard.JSG: So that’s right, we had a conversation in our living room that night that went on for hours, where we decided before we resolved this issue, we really needed to understand what was beneath it. We were talking about a cabin, yeah, but what dreams, what history, what feelings, what life purpose was underneath the request or the denial for a cabin. Your partner, scrolling on their phone, remarks, "Oh, this is an interesting article." bid for connection

BB: But I do think, I don’t know, to love someone so much that you want to carve out time to understand their map, who they are. I think what’s scary about that with a partner that’s less scary with a sister or a friend is… And it’s also scary… I think it’s scariest first with a partner and then second with a child is, what if what’s on your heart and on your map and in your dreams takes you away from me in some way?

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BB: So beautiful. But I have to say this, it’s vulnerable. It’s what you’re asking is really vulnerable. It feels really like… I think it’s very easy to be cynical about it, to laugh about it, to dismiss it, but it’s very vulnerable. Whether you’re looking to fix specific problems or get the most out of your marriage or romantic relationship, couples therapists John and Julie Gottman will get you moving in the right direction. Authors of numerous books on love, their approach to couples therapy is based on years of clinical practice, decades of scientific research at the Gottman Institute and Love Lab, and their personal experiences in their 35-year marriage.

BB: You know, where Julie wants a cabin, and John says, “No, we’re not getting a cabin.” And Julie says, “Yes,” and John says, “No.” And then they go to a therapist. And therapist was like, “John, just set a boundary and say, ‘You’re not getting a cabin.’” And they’re both like, “You’re fired.” A road map toward a better marriage. . . . The authors have devised simple practices designed to teach partners how to relate to each other in productive ways. . . . Warm encouragement for healing troubled relationships.” JG: Yeah, I want to tell the story of the research of one of my colleagues, Paul Zak, who wrote a book called The Moral Molecule, which is about oxytocin. And if you spray oxytocin up people’s nose, they’re more trusting, they’re more generous, they’re more giving. Well, it turns out you can get that effect with a 20-second hug.BB: Yeah, it’s… Yeah. Give a real compliment. What gets in the way of this? And what do we do instead? That’s my question here. ABR: So on my mind is just a lot of the things that we’re doing this fall in the community that I run The Daring Way, excited about it, but there’s a lot to do for it, so that’s been on my mind. And I think on my heart, which has been here for a while, is just this dance that I’m doing and learning new steps to, and it feels like a little bit of a line dance on how to navigate being a mom with a daughter that’s newly at college, so that’s on my heart. All the time, I think. BB: She is the author and co-author of many best-selling books, including Eight Dates, Ten Lessons to Transform Your Marriage, The Man’s Guide To Women, and Baby Makes Three. These folks are very serious. They talk like therapists. We can really understand what they’re saying, but their stuff is so grounded in data. Let me just start by saying this. They can predict, with 90% accuracy. This is based on work done in the Love Lab. They can predict with 90% accuracy whether a couple will stay together or not, and if the union will be a happy one. Just by observation, like how people talk to each other, how they engage with each other, how they relate to each other, 90% accuracy. And it’s a 15-minute observation.

BB: Yes. Where people talk to each other 35 minutes a week. I think sometimes it’s very easy for rowing the boat together and logistics and get the games and do this, and what’s going on can become the substitute for intimacy and friendship, which is why, like, when you’re my age and everyone’s kids are leaving for college, there’s very little left in the friendship bank account.

BG: Yeah. I think I’ve always thought I was an extrovert, but I think I could be somewhere in the middle too. Oh, and hold on. The one other thing I was going to say that I thought was really important was, instead of always pointing out what they’re doing wrong, pointing out what they’re doing right, I thought that was really important. And I was thinking a lot about too, my daughter, when Julie was saying, “We grow up with just, don’t do this, don’t do that, don’t do this, don’t do that.” But to catch people doing things right, you even talk about it in Dare to Lead. I was like, “Oh yeah, that’s a big one.” JSG: So, the more we can see what our partners are doing right and turning towards us and to say thank you, the more turning towards will increase in the relationship. BB: Before we jump in to this first episode, let me tell you a little bit about our guest. Dr. John Gottman previously served as Executive Director of the Relationship Research Institute, and is a Professor Emeritus of Psychology at the University of Washington, where he founded the Love Lab. He is world-renowned for his work on marital stability and divorce prediction. Has conducted 40 years of ground-breaking research with thousands of couples. His work has earned him numerous major awards, and he was named one of the top ten most influential therapists of the past quarter century. He is the author of many books, including several that we’ve talked about here. Dr. Julie Schwartz Gottman is president of the Gottman Institute and co-founder of Affective Software. She is a highly respected clinical psychologist. She was named Washington State psychologist of the Year and received the 2021 Psychotherapy Networker Lifetime Achievement Award. That Lifetime Achievement Award, I’m telling you right now from Psychotherapy Networker, no joke. JG: And it’s really interesting how they see things so differently, and so as we get older, it takes more of an effort to really do things like talk to strangers and find out who they are. But then when we do that, we create a little community, and that community of caring really makes a huge difference in our own well-being and our own health.